Comments on: Poverty And Economic Thought - Charles Karelis http://www.wurfwhile.com/blog/2008/04/02/poverty-and-economic-thought-charles-karelis/ Insight - Foresight - Hindsight Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:22:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Hiram Wurf http://www.wurfwhile.com/blog/2008/04/02/poverty-and-economic-thought-charles-karelis/#comment-52097 Hiram Wurf Mon, 07 Apr 2008 04:21:24 +0000 http://www.wurfwhile.com/blog/?p=1656#comment-52097 Hi K T Cat and Charles Karelis, Thank you both for your comments. K T, I'm not familiar with Dave Ramsey, who you cite in your link, but there is a difference between suggesting that some people may be successful at various ways to tackle debt (you mention "Katie" and yourself) and suggesting that most (or even all) can do so. For one thing Katie (and I assume you) have been able to hold jobs that pay enough to pay off debt, however challenging it may have been to do so. For people with childcare, transportation, education, safety, prison record and/or other barriers to employment (such as living in economically depressed areas) - getting employed and staying employed can be incredibly difficult, if not impossible (not to mention being employed at a living wage). That said, there is no doubt that structure and access to resources (sound financial advice, help from neighbors/family with childcare, etc.) can help at least some people. Charles, I'm embarrassed to have you commenting on my post when I haven't even read your book! I'll try to rectify that soon and revisit your argument armed with a better understanding of it. Take care. Hi K T Cat and Charles Karelis,

Thank you both for your comments.

K T, I’m not familiar with Dave Ramsey, who you cite in your link, but there is a difference between suggesting that some people may be successful at various ways to tackle debt (you mention “Katie” and yourself) and suggesting that most (or even all) can do so. For one thing Katie (and I assume you) have been able to hold jobs that pay enough to pay off debt, however challenging it may have been to do so. For people with childcare, transportation, education, safety, prison record and/or other barriers to employment (such as living in economically depressed areas) - getting employed and staying employed can be incredibly difficult, if not impossible (not to mention being employed at a living wage). That said, there is no doubt that structure and access to resources (sound financial advice, help from neighbors/family with childcare, etc.) can help at least some people.

Charles, I’m embarrassed to have you commenting on my post when I haven’t even read your book! I’ll try to rectify that soon and revisit your argument armed with a better understanding of it.

Take care.

]]> By: Charles Karelis http://www.wurfwhile.com/blog/2008/04/02/poverty-and-economic-thought-charles-karelis/#comment-51978 Charles Karelis Sun, 06 Apr 2008 15:22:16 +0000 http://www.wurfwhile.com/blog/?p=1656#comment-51978 You're right that my point in the book doesn't defy common sense. The trouble is that common sense is sometimes clouded by textbook theory, in this case Econ 101, which says that the benefit of dollars is always greater when you have fewer of them. This implies that everything else being equal, the poorest people should work the hardest. When that doesn't happen, poverty reformers overgeneralize from legitimate cases of restricted opportunity and apathy, blaming one or the other (depending on their politics) for nonwork. This leads them to look for big fixes in the wrong places, and to underestimate the beneficial effect of programs like the Earned Income Tax Credit. Charles Karelis You’re right that my point in the book doesn’t defy common sense. The trouble is that common sense is sometimes clouded by textbook theory, in this case Econ 101, which says that the benefit of dollars is always greater when you have fewer of them. This implies that everything else being equal, the poorest people should work the hardest. When that doesn’t happen, poverty reformers overgeneralize from legitimate cases of restricted opportunity and apathy, blaming one or the other (depending on their politics) for nonwork. This leads them to look for big fixes in the wrong places, and to underestimate the beneficial effect of programs like the Earned Income Tax Credit. Charles Karelis

]]> By: K T Cat http://www.wurfwhile.com/blog/2008/04/02/poverty-and-economic-thought-charles-karelis/#comment-51380 K T Cat Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:18:55 +0000 http://www.wurfwhile.com/blog/?p=1656#comment-51380 Karelis' argument is nonsense. He's unwittingly made the case that <a href="http://ktcatspost.blogspot.com/2008/04/dave-ramsey-blows-charles-karelis-out.html" rel="nofollow">quitters don't do well</a>. Karelis’ argument is nonsense. He’s unwittingly made the case that quitters don’t do well.

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